F800GS is all its made out to be.

So Andy, how did Tian feel after riding a real bike for a while ? :P Could he handle the 1150? Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

I read the thread title as a question, and was just about to get all defensive about my steed!

I took my Dakkie on the trip, fully preparing to then buy an 1150 in the next six months to replace it - I have the height to ride a std. 1150, was looking for the 6th gear if offers (versus the 1100), and felt I could pick one up at a fair price (as compared to a newish 1200). But watching the 800's perform, and seeing their nimbleness, I have set myself a goal of owning one inside of 6 months - gulp! It will not be as pillion-friendly as the 11xx and 1200's, but I reckon it is a VERY capable all-round bike, and it is in my sights...! http://www.themanorcottage.co.za

If I can convince pop that he REALLY needs a 1200 adv/longrange HP2 I might get me a hand-me-down. I wish. I still think the dakkie is beter in the technical stuff though. It just seems to track straighter and it feels like there is a lot less weight on the front wheel. In the sand 800 is a charm with instant/predictable power.

I'd love a bike like the 800 - but if i were to get something bigger than my Dakar, I'd seriously have to consider the 1150 or 1200 because of the boxer engine. Everything about the 800 appeals to me except for the engine itself.

Cloud, how come you don't like the 800's engine? My first bike ever was the F650GS so I know how nice the thumper's character is. Also, I have driven boxers from 1972, 1980, and two 1150GS's (none of them mine.) The 800's engine is, after the handling on the F800S, the best thing about the bike! I love the torque (it pulls like a tractor from just over 2000rpm to 5500rpm). Above 80km/h you can overtake without changing down. It is so much more flexible than the single, and I would stick my neck out and say it is more flexible than the boxer too. The sound is amazing (exhaust is tuned to mimic the boxer) and it has almost as much character as the thumper. To be 100% honest, it has grown on me over time, although I can't remember actually ever disliking it. If you want to make a plan to ride mine sometime, just let me know so I can put you on the insurance. Cheers Frank

It's not that I dislike the engine - but i think it lacks the character/idiosyncrasies of the boxer. I could be wrong, but I imagine the 800 engine is almost too perfect. Almost like a japanese engine. I rode a boxer for the first time a couple of months ago - and starting it up was amazing, you could just feel those pistons kicking from side to side. Why they didn't put a flat twin into the 800 I'll never know. I still think it's a great bike tho - and would be hard-pressed deciding between that and a 1200.

I also had the privilege to ride Peter da Mann's 800GS for a very short distance during our Wild Coast Tour. I was "blown" away by what I experienced. Geoff on Pete's Bike Potent Zippy True Good suspension Easy to ride Manageable power If I was in the market for a smaller bike I would not hesitate to get an 800GS!

That's a very feminine view of machinery ;) They didn't put a boxer into it because they already have a very successful boxer on the market, and they wanted to make a lighter, more responsive, etc. etc. bike to compete with the KTMs. But if you like the fact that it sounds a bit like the boxer, it's because the firing order is identical (and optimal). I have not yet found the limits of the Rotax 800's power and torque, and the only advantage that I can see to the 1150/1200 is the high speed, long distance comfort. The 21" front end is a bonus, although the front suspension is a bit soft. One has to take it a bit easy in the rough stuff.

On the Wild Coast trip Glen (aka "Mr Robert Mugabe") also complained of a soft front suspension and said he bottomed it out on a few occasions. I never experienced any problems though.

I am also "in the process" of deciding wether I should keep my 1200GS or replace it with a 800GS or 990KTM. What I want to improve on is ground clearance and suspension travel, especially up front. My plan is to test ride both in the summer time. What makes it even more difficult is that my 1200 is a 2004 model which has done only 10000km with absolutely nothing "wrong" with it!

Why not have one of each (800 + 1200). The 800 is not a replacement for the 1200. I don't think anyone will dispute that the 800 is far more capable in the technical stuff, but for everything else, the 1200 must be king. I looked long and hard at the KTM 990 (and even ordered one) before getting the 800GS. The KTM is a superb, well made machine, but it is significantly more expensive. It is heavier, and above all, it's fuel consumption is ridiculous. Also, I think you will find that time will show the Rotax parallel twin to be superior to the LC8 in terms of reliability. Have you ever heard of people putting KTM engines into aircraft?

Well, all said n done, the designers came up with a corker, for sure. The balance, 21" front and upside down suspension really works well in the rough. It is just such a nicely rounded off machine. And I'm suitably impressed. Yes, me next bike will still be an 1150GSA of low mileage, but that will never detract from the 800 which I must credit as a superb machine for all occasions. I hope the 800 owners appreciate the pedigree and actually go out and use it.!!! Andyman Yup that's me. Standing up in the traffic on the 1150GSA.

I own the El Cheapo, 650 twin version. Bought it because of the, at that stage 12 month waiting list for the 800. I am just in love with the silky twin. It is a lovely motor, smoother than the boxer and surprisingly does not need to be revved higher than the boxer (the 650's detuned 800 run out of steam over 6000 rpm anyway). It easily cruises at 6000 rpm, 160 kph, which is not much different from the boxer, but with less vibration. I'll swap it for an 800 when the 800 becomes available with tubeless rims. PS I am not running the boxer down, in fact I also own one, but there is no denying that 800 Rotax motor is a fantastic piece of engineering.

You shouldda heard Geoff reving the beans outta that bike when he "borrowed" it to go look for some stragglers, turned it around then came tearing through that river whooping the whole way. Im guessing he approves hahaha. Pete had to remind him that it was his bike.

I'd be hard pressed to choose between the 800 and 1200. I love the fact that it's got a 21" front wheel and is awesome for the technical stuff, and thats it's lighter and smaller than the 1200. In fact i consider it to be the perfect size bike for me - and excels at everything I'd want it to do. But..... (never forget the but) the 1200 ADV is just sooo pretty. I want one of those too.

Cloud........ Just get both!!!!!!!

Good idea Geoff. While I'm at it I'll get myself a Kate Moss, a Merc AMG, and just for kicks a KTM as well. Thanks.

Dustrider, don't worry about the '650' running out of steam over 6000rpm, precious little happens above 5500rpm on the F800S (and I am assuming the same for the GS). The fact is, with all that torque there is really no need to rev it or change down too much, making it flexible and relaxing to ride.

Charles, Tian enjoyed his 1150 ride and he did very well on it. Others were in awe of its heer size and weight and when I offered rides, I had no takers. It was dubbed the tank of Der Panzer because it took the punishement so well. I will say the terrain Geooff took us over was extreme and I did find some difficult, but hell, the 1150 can do anything and survive most things. I went on tour with a front rim which had a dent. If I let pressure down to below 1.5bar the bent rim allowed air loss. So I was very disadvantaged on steep grassy slopes and in mud, so went down more than i normally would have. I have no extar scratches or dents and only two broken bash plate mounts to show for 12 days of extreme. Plus I carry a med kit and comprehensive tool kit which is some 7 kilos more than any other bike carried. Andyman Yup that's me. Standing up in the traffic on the 1150GSA.

The 990's are not heavy on fuel....they just have small tanks ;-0 I thought Rotax made custom engines for aircraft or are they just multifunctional?

Rotax makes custom engines for aircraft just as they make custom engines for BMW motorcycles and also for Bombardier Snowmobiles.

If you get blown away by the suspension on the 800GS, go test ride an offroad KTM. In my opinion the only bike with a real suspension. I'm buying a 2009 KTM Adventure 990R in a month or two, will post some pics when I take her out for a "suspension workout" ;-) I test rode the 990R and ever since I'm dreaming about this bike EVERY SINGLE night ;-) I'm like a kid that can't wait for Xmas night! Regards, Corné

Another problem with 650/800GS (both models) seems to be rear pillion space. While my shortie wife is quite happy, pillions with longer legs seem to be uncomfortable with the position of the footpegs. Power and suspension wise the 800 handles a pillion with aplomb. If you have a tall pillion the 1150/1200 or a move to the dark side are your options.

If your suspension is too soft, see Martin Petzold at MP Valve in Milnerton. He can replace your springs with harder ones or change the characteristics of your shocks. I had him put a stiffer shock in back of Mr.Badger... Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

Ah, I missed this sweet little thread where my name is used in lighter vein :) I really enjoyed riding Andy's 1150 - the overall feeling is one of unstoppable, smooth momentum. Compared to that my 800 is more like a squirrel on Red Bull ... which I happen to find totally irresistable ;) The torque steer nearly caught me out a few times while negotiating some een-spoor cattle ruts. It felt as if it had a lot less ground clearance than the 800, but I didn't compare them side-by-side so can't say if there's really much difference. The standing riding position on the 1150 was super comfortable - like what I imagine it's like to ride a Segway. I really must get some raisers for the 800! To echo the comments about suspension: I was really impressed with Justin's KTM 640 which has White Power suspension at the back - it seemed to snugly hug the terrain which ensured consistent and smooth power through the back wheel to the ground. In contrast, my 800 struggled on the corrugations and I often had to power down to regain traction, especially on washed out bends in the road. Another thing that was a bit bothersome was the clatter and noise over rough roads. Pete da Mann pointed this out first and then I noticed that the 800's all had this problem in common - you could certainly hear us coming! I still don't know what exactly the cause of it is - the chain? the tail light assembly? centre stand? It was worse at certain speeds over a certain type of rough surface - but those were usually the speeds & types of surface which militated against me doing some bike yoga to study the undercarriage! In terms of speed: we had an informal drag race on the deserted 1.5km air strip above Port St Johns. On the first run I convincingly left the 1200GSA in the dust. On the rematch I was caught napping at the start which allowed Kevin on an 1200GSA to streak ahead. Both Wynand and myself on 800's matched his acceleration and top speed but couldn't actually catch and overtake him. I think Kevin clocked us at 185km/h before we ran out of runway. This is what lies at the end of the runway: View from the end of the runway: Port St Johns in the background, near the mouth of the Umzimvubu River This is why I was glad for the 800's profound stopping power! The only reason why I might consider upgrading to a 1200 would be to do really long trips with/without a pillion, or do the same sort of trips I currently do but more often with pillion. I can't see myself doing a self-sufficient trip with kit AND pillion on the 800. For shorter, more technical, and especially solo trips I think the 800 is king of the hill. But if I am looking to go touring with a wife, child and perhaps a small dog then I'll definitely upgrade to an Adventure ;) I struggled in the heavy NW cross winds we encountered near Swellendam on Sunday. But I gather this experience was shared by all, so not necessarily because of the higher centre of gravity on my bike. The 800 has loads of power. In PE I towed Andy with his 1150 plus with Nils riding pillion with me through rainy dark rush hour traffic, and it never wavered - though it took a day for the clutch smell to dissipate fully! Reliability must be a consideration also. Though my bike has not yet left me in the lurch due to mechnical failure it HAS had what seems like an inordinate amount of warranty replacements: - rear wheel bearings failed - radiator hose too short (design flaw) - front axle replaced (design flaw) - both front brake disks replaced (floating sections became too loose) All this in the first year and having done less than 20,000km. Sure, this is a new design and mine was one of the first generation so there will be design oversights and a shake-out process. I certainly can't fault BMW for their after-sales and warranty support. For now, I'm totally happy with the bike, and feel as if I'm still very much growing into it. I only started offroad riding this year and have not even managed a lot of it yet, so I want to make an effort to get out to Atlantis, Zone 7 or equivalent at least once a month from now on.

If you managed to get your 800's clutch to smell, I strongly recommend that you do an oil change. It is a wet clutch, so it sounds like you might have used your oil to cook with. I have just returned from the CountryTrax intermediate course at klipbokkop, and I can say with absolute confidence that the F800GS is far superior to both the 1200GS and the KTM 990 in tight technical terrain.

Interesting reading. My thougths are that every bike are good for the purpose it's intended for - plus a bit more... Altough the Adventures are well capable in the hands (under the thighs!)of people like Andy, I wonder if it is realy meant for "off roading?" Is it not more for longer touring purposes on tar and gravel etc as well as the odd difficult crossing and obstacles? I love my GS as I use it everyday for shorter trips in town, and I can practically go on longer trips tar and gravel any moment when I want - an Adventure would be a bit of an overkill for everyday use in town(?) - although you people who have it - use it for that purpose as well. I saw the 800's perform on the intermediate course - and of course it is much more nippier than the heavier bikes! For pillions and baggage I cannot see an 650 or 800 as comfortable as the bigger bikes, although not impossible. Enjoy your bike for what you intended it for - or buy the one that fits your lifestyle!? And sometimes you do the odd thing which is not quite in line with your bike's intended purpose, but it seems they can take it! Have a nice week everyone!

I was going to say much the same. Mr.Badger with his dry clutch and long first gear lets me know in no uncertain terms when he thinks my riding stinks! ;-) How about its performance against the HP2 Enduro? The HP2 Enduro is lighter, has 25% more power and torque, better suspension, better cog, and looks like a beast of a machine. Now '''that''' is my dream bike - a wickeder version of Mr.Badger. I have run comparisons between them all on [http://www.bikez.com/bike/rating.php?idbike=26476 bikez.com] and the 800GS is a hair-breadth better than the KTM, with the HP2 a tad behind those two. But then the rating criteria depend on the the person... Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

Dominee, I like your post. It is very apporpriate. I use my 1150GSA for its intended purpose, and sometimes to od a bit more. My motivation for aquisition was tough rugged long distance off tar touring - self sustained- Thats tents, chairs, food, back up, recovery etc. The built in air compressor, fuel exhcanging and towing gear, as well as custom jumper leads all go to make it a great distance tourer. But taking it on the Wild Coast extreme is not what designers had in mind and like me it is no spring hare that can negotiate those severe obstacles with any penache. I adjust my riding style, adapt and always conquer, simply because the 1150GSA can do it if asked. Of-road. it's all I've ever known, so is good enough for me. As a long distance tourer I could not do any better. As the 1200 GS/GSA prove time and again with the the can-bus electronics and soft-sell elctronic gadetry, they were not designed to follow the 1150GSA into the wilderness without BMW On Call more than 4 hours away. All post 2007 bikes are made, NOT for the camel-man who is now extinct, But as an SUV, to show and look good. They are great on gravel make no mistake, just keep phone connectivity in mind or take a back-up vehicle behind you. But hving ridden the F800GS I maintain it does all it was designed for and more. GREAT BIKE! Andyman Yup that's me. Standing up in the traffic on the 1150GSA.