Help me to choose.
Since this is the BMW club there should be a lot of info and experiences with the different bike models. My problem is that I am struggling to choose the right bike between all of the models.
First I must say that the Midrand Motorrad dealership have been very nice to me, and really went out of their way to try and help me (specifically Matthew). They gave me several of their models to ride for 24h.
Basically my requiremens are as follows:
- - I would like to be able to commute with the bike.
- - The bike should be able to handle good gravel roads sometimes. I ride 90% tar.
- - The bike should be comfortable on long trips. I have problems with my left elbow due to a car accident, and I have a bony bum.
I tried the following bikes:
- F800GS. It is a great machine and it was excellent through wet and muddy gravel roads. On tar I started suffering from wind and noise fatique - I was limited to keeping it under 140kmh. I also found the saddle too uncomfortable - I had to stop every 50km to unclench the cheeks. In traffic I found the bike too high - I was not able to put both feet on the ground at the same time.
- F800S. Again a great machine, but it was limited to tar only. It was difficult to control on the short gravel road to my plot, which was rutted with mud and sand patches due the rains. On tar it was great, good roadholding and grip and it felt more like a sport tourer than a sport. In traffic it was a sure winner. The problem is the small screen - caused wind fatigue. I had to duck behind the screen over 140kph.
- R1200GS. I felt like the boss on the bike. I had the usual initial "wide load" anxiety you get with all the boxers, but it was doing well on a short commute through traffic. Unfortunately I was not able to test it further due to a crisis at work.
- K1300S. I really did not want to give it back after the demo. I was really wondering how long it will take them to find me. I did a commute to Pretoria through Midrand, and back through rush hour. It was not a problem through the traffic at all, although felt a bit heavy at low speeds - but it is a big heavy bike. On the open road on good tar it was a dream ride, until I took a wrong turn and landed up on 3rd grade tar. The bike did not like potholes and irregular surfaces. Otherwise it was stable and fast - too damn fast. At no point did the wind bother me even with the relatively small screen.
Matthew's suggestion was to go for the F800ST, but I have not tried that shoe. I am also slightly concerned that the engine will be too small for extended trips with pillion and baggage. I am also concerned that riding position will cause my elbow some distress as I found with the F800S. Although the seat on the F800S was comfortable I did experience some pain after 150km.
So in the end which one will I choose? The R1200GS, the K1300S, the F800ST?
Give the 1200GS a longer and maybe slightly technical test before you decide on a bike. If you could smokkel the bike for a weekend, all the better, you could put it through its paces properly
My 250 Kymco Dink scooter is a far nicer commuter in traffic and shortish hopping around town runs, than my 1200GS, but the type of commute can swing it around... a 100km mainly open road commute..the GS.
You have to decide..commute or weekend... then buy the bike you most love...if you choose w-end, as you love the bike you will happily suffer it's weakness in the commute and vise versa.
What about the 650GS twin?
I generally will not use the bike for shopping runs. I am too lazy to ATGATT for such short trips, therefore I use my car. At least the car has aircon and a boot for packages. I have been looking at a scooter - but again it comes down to ATGATT, I don't ride without it. I might look at 250/400 scooter for commuting depending on the bike I buy.
Commuting is not an essential part of the choice. It is a consideration of course in that I would like to be able to use it sometimes to commute. I generally have to commute by car due to family (kids). But once in a while I do get the chance to use a bike.
The main consideration is weekend and holiday use. The bike must be able to do a lot of kms on weekends - 500+ kms per day. And it should be comfortable enough. I generally do not carry much baggage or a pillion anyway, commonly just a weekend bag with bare essentials.
What about the other BMW range? I heard good things on the 1150s. Should I extend my considerations to include some of those?
Lastly, I am highly allergic to buyer's remorse. I buy my cars and bikes after careful considerations, and I tend to keep them a very long time. I don't trade very year.
The current 650GS is a detuned 800GS. I would rather buy a 2nd hand 650GS Dakar.
What about the 650GS twin?
Ruder complained about the 800's seat being uncomfy... the 650 twin's seat is a plank with nails diguised as a seat, very uncomfy on the long road.
The current 650GS is a detuned 800GS. I would rather buy a 2nd hand 650GS Dakar.
Yes, but it is an excellent commuting bike - and it's very capable of doing some off-road stuff.
The dakar is more dirt orientated.
The new 650 will be a lot more comfortable on a long tar ride. The 19' wider front wheel makes a huge difference.
Don't knock the 650 twin until you've tried it. You like to do your homework, so go take it for a ride - only then will you know for sure.
The current 650GS is a detuned 800GS. I would rather buy a 2nd hand 650GS Dakar.
Yes, but it is an excellent commuting bike - and it's very capable of doing some off-road stuff.
The dakar is more dirt orientated.
The new 650 will be a lot more comfortable on a long tar ride. The 19' wider front wheel makes a huge difference.
Don't knock the 650 twin until you've tried it. You like to do your homework, so go take it for a ride - only then will you know for sure.
I'vegot to agree with Steven (maybe 'cos I'm biased?), the 650 twin is more than enough bike for me. It can cruise at 160 kmh all day, it's nimble, light on juice, handles like a dream on tar, and is more than able off-road. I've done a few "Geoff" rides with the bike, including the West Coast tour, and I was more the worse for wear than the bike.
The current 650GS is a detuned 800GS. I would rather buy a 2nd hand 650GS Dakar.
It is an alternately tuned 800. It has excellent low-end torque as a result and makes a very nice all-round bike, especially if your off-road is restricted to dirt roads as opposed to no-roads at all. But the seat is not plush.
To me it sounds like a 1200GS will do the trick - unless you want to get a second-hand 1150GS (but then you might suffer from buyers remorse and have little recourse). Give the 1200 a good trial - even borrow one from somebody for a weekend trip. It also commutes very, very well, and is low so you can get your toetsies on the ground.
Actually I did sit on the 650GS. The seat was even more uncomfortable than the 800. I did not ride it though, but I have ridden a 650 Dakar on a weekend trip through the rough stuff.
I did not really want to mix the offroad stuff into this convo, but I will probaby be buying a 650X after I bought the road/touring bike. That is another of the reasons I am not considering the 650GS.
If I had won the lotto I would buy 4 bikes. The 650X, the 1200GS, the K1300GT, the 1000RR, and a scooter. But I only win the lotto in my dreams. So I have to make a choice on the best bike for my actual usage.
I got this from the ADVrider forum.... it makes for interesting reading
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545960
Read the thread, Ruder
The April 2009 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News tested the new F650GS. Before I get to their impressions I will provide the hard numbers, as they take less thinking on my part. The engine, which is rated at 71 hp by BMW, tested as 63.4 hp @ 7600 rpm and 50.8 lb.-ft. of torque @ 5850 rpm at the rear wheel (on the same dyno, the F800GS tested 73.7 hp @ 8250 and 51.45 lb.-ft. @ 5750 rpm) and the rev limiter kicks in on both bikes at 9000 rpm. The F650GS ran the quarter mile in 12.53 seconds @ 103.75 mph, with a 0-60 time of 4.24 seconds (the 800GS accelerated through the quarter mile in 12.20 sec @ 107.78 mph and 0-60 in 3.95 sec.) The top speed of the 650 was 121.4 mph @ 8100 rpm in fifth gear and 121.5 mph @ 7400 rpm in sixth gear. (The 800 had a top speed of 125.7 mph in sixth gear.) The actual speed at an indicated 65 mph is 63.1 mph and the engine is turning 3700 rpm @ 65 mph.
The F650GS weighs 473.5 pounds with a full tank of gas. The 800 weighed 490.5 pounds. Both bikes had ABS, the computer and a centerstand. The bike they tested was flame red. They mentioned that the 650 can run on regular fuel, but the 800 needs premium fuel, unless the FI has been reprogrammed by a dealer. Again, it was mentioned that the 650 uses a different FI spool that results in a slower and less abrupt throttle opening. Seat height is 32.4” or 31.2” with a seat change, or 30.1” with the factory lowering kit. Maximum permitted load is 522 pounds for the standard bike, but is reduced to only 331 pounds with the factory-lowered bike. Wheelbase is 62” and ground clearance is 7.5”. Their fuel mileage (ridden briskly) was a high of 54.4, a low of 42.3 and an average of 50.9 miles per gallon. Routine service interval is 6000 miles and valve adjustment interval is 12,400 miles (?).
Now this is interesting: Braking performance from 60 to 0 was 131.2 feet with the ABS activated and 120.6 feet with the ABS turned off. The F800GS had a best stop of 127.5 feet with ABS. The dynamometer comments were as follows: "Detuned with milder camshafts (7.2 mm lift vs. 9.64 mm on the F800GS and reduced valve timing), the F650GS’s 798cc motor gives the same strong power below 5300 rpm, yet runs on regular gas, its smoother delivery off the bottom end is another plus. It is an excellent motor." The total cost for a 12K major service is estimated as $416 for 5.2 hours (@ $80 an hour) of labor and $120.42 for parts (my dealer charges more for labor).
Now don’t shoot the messenger , but the magazine seems to like the 650 better than the 800 (especially considering the $2265 price difference). They liked the 650 for its: "superior engine drivability to its big brother, the F800GS; excellent handling from street-based tires and geometry; lower seat and center of gravity aid handling." What they didn’t like was: "lower footpegs can cause ground clearance issues; either seat (high or low) is not long-term comfortable; F800GS windshield (3" higher) should be standard”"
The two testers preferred the 650’s lower suspension and stated that they rode the two bikes back-to-back and the 800’s "longer travel suspension proved to be a disadvantage when compared to the cornering prowess of the shorter and less expensive F650GS." They also prefer the bike’s wider 19" front wheel and state that the single disc brake makes for lighter steering and affords noticeably more on-road cornering grip. In their opinion, both bikes have the best transmission that BMW has ever featured on a bike, with smooth shifting up or down. The worse features of the 650 are its hard seat and poor wind protection. (That should be no surprise!) The magazine really liked the 650GS and is hoping to be able to keep one for a long-term test.
I have the F800s, but with the ST screen. Since the bars are lower, the screen is more effective on the S than it is on its ST. If you order the bike like this, you don't have to pay the full price of the ST screen, only the difference. It also looks good smoked.
S is great for commuting, and seats can always be padded, but unless you are quite short I think your knees will bug you on long trips before your behind will.
The S has fewer luggage options than the ST, but these can be fitted. Bear in mind it may cost more than just getting an ST though. Two up with luggage, acceleration on the 800 is not sparkling over 140km/h. However, bearing in mind the impending points system and a new propensity to arrest speeders...
Have you considered an R1200R with an aftermarket screen?
Ladies look at this thread, and bookmark it, next time a man makes a comment on your apparent indecisiveness with regard to a dress, shoes or a handbag send him a copy of this!
Read it halfway and then thought: O please! Just make up your mind up! Guess that means Ladies - 0, Gents - 1 on that argument???
Ladies look at this thread, and bookmark
it, next time a man makes a comment on your apparent indecisiveness
with regard to a dress, shoes or a handbag send him a copy of this!
I am not indecisive. I just take longer to weigh up all the options very carefully. :)
Seriously, I have spent/wasted too much money on cars & bikes that I was not happy with afterwards.
Also, I appreciate the opinions and proofs regarding the 650. But like I said I want to buy a 650X anyway to meet my offroad demands.
Right now I am looking for commuter (10%), light offroad (10%), touring (80%) bike that does not hurt my elbow, bum, or ears.
Strangely so far I have had no comments on the K1300 series.
Ruder, point take. Sorry cannot assist with advice on the bikes, however, if you ever need assistance choosing the perfect shoes .....
I am not indecisive. I just take longer to weigh up all the options very carefully. :)
It sounds to me like you made up your mind a while ago but you don't want to see the end of this thread!
Dammit! Just get the 1200GS. The best allround bike in the world. U can thank us afterwards 
Get a mountain bike ;).
Seriously, though, I still think the GS1200 is your best bet, but the choice is ultimately yours.
Lastly, I am highly allergic to buyer's remorse. I buy my cars and bikes after careful considerations, and I tend to keep them a very long time. I don't trade very year.
Get a 1200GS Adventure... Believe me there is NO buyer's remorse with this bike...
I had a 650GS single and now ride a R1200GS Adventure.. I loved my 650 but I can honestly say I love my Adventure more 
It's an awesome commuting bike! Even with my panniers fitted..
Best standard wind protection.. I'm anal about wind noise however with the Adventure screen(S) I sometimes don't even wear my earplugs.
When it comes to a comfortable seating.. well there is no comparison and with ESA you can even make the road feel a lot smoother.
It's also a really good bike for mud work 
http://corne.katoong.com/galleries/100115-So_I_got_stuck/Photo-0032.jpg
JUST GET THE 1200, you will not regret it!
I am not indecisive. I just take longer to weigh up all the options very carefully. :)
It sounds to me like you made up your mind a while ago but you don't want to see the end of this thread!
Not quite. But yes in a way I have ... but I would still like to hear from people who own the K1300S or K1300GT.
Get a mountain bike ;).
I have one. It is how I keep fit for weekend offroading. And riding offroad with the MB keeps those sand skills sharp...
Ruder PM Phast Phred, he has a K...?
The K , R, L, gents tend to be more reticent and unfortunately, don't post as much.
Ruder, I am on my 4th 1200 GS, standard model, and love it to bits, I have the option to go off road and we tour longer distances, we used to average about 25K per annum, they are magic, it does all things well, but I do agree get a bike for the week end and ride, have you ridden boxers? they have a different technique and character. In the end it'syour choice please do let us know your decision.
I own a Dakar and have spent a fair amount of time on the 800 and 600 GS twins (rides from Cape Town to Stilbaai) and also a weekend on an Adventure.
I will never get rid of my Dakar! Perfect for commuting and offroad and VERY comfortable one up.
The Adventure is streets better offroad if you're looking at carrying any load/passenger and great in terms of performance, road holding and handling and comfort (though the new Adventure saddle is pretty hard compared with the older models), but if you want to play a bit offroad, the Dakar is easier.
The 650 twins are better road handlers (than my Dakar) in terms of power, performance and roadholding; but when I got back on my Dakar my prostate sang a song of relief (it was singing because it was sitting in my throat after sitting on the ironing board saddle for the weekend!!!) My Dakar was like a lounge chair by comparison.
I can't imagine you'd be sorry with any of them, just work out the extras that you'll need for finetuning (bash plates/screens/hand protectors etc etc).
So ... once you've bought your shoes with Erica's help, make up your mind whether you want to ride solo/offroad/onroad/commute and JFDI 
Erica, please don't suggest orange shoes!
Thanks to everyone so far!
2 questions:
1. Can people give views on the ride quality between the 1200GS and 1200GSA?
2. What are the recommended upgrades for a GS/GSA?
Thanks to everyone so far!
2 questions:
1. Can people give views on the ride quality between the 1200GS and 1200GSA?
2. What are the recommended upgrades for a GS/GSA?
GSA:
more suspension travel (front and rear)
Larger fuel capacity (33l)
Engine protection bars
pannier frames already installed
better wind protection (larger screen plus those wind shields on the sides)
lower first gear (awesome for slow technical riding)
The adventure is taller and if that is a concern then realise that the 1200GS will easily cover what you want it for:
- commuting
- long-distance touring on tar, dirt
- offroad
Why not orange shoes, PeterO?
The KTM guys look very cute in them!
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