Insurance

I agree Max! WTF Buddy Out there where we all belong.

I have contacted BMW Insurance, waiting for Sudash Sohan the BMW Insurance manager to contact me. Will post reply as soon as I have all the answers.

Well I do not have a price increase problem, but 1 month after the sale, BMW finance is bugging me for an additional 100 bucks a month, because I am not comprehensively insured....Where does that come from..!!!

Gordon from BMW Insurance called and explained all the changes as from the 1st January 2010. All existing clients below the minimum, about 3000 including cars will change to minimum premium. R390.00 for motorcycles and R540.00 for cars. If you are over sixty there will be no change to your premium. BMW has looked at the insurance market and feels that most insurance companies are quoting above four hundred, this combined with the number for bikes being written off they are underrecovering on premiums and need to make the adjustment. Please comtact me if you have any queries at 021 4174766

They are forced to write off the bikes cause the parts are so expensive...

Parts are expensive and BMW Insurance will still replace not repair all damaged parts.

This is nonsense, all we do is pay, pay, pay....it's the old story of why must I be affected by bikes being written off if it is not my bike being written off? What about the guy that does not have warranty anymore, is insured and just want to buy parts when and as he needs it? Like I have heard so many times before "everything @ BMW starts at R 1000" pretty soon we will be paying R1000 per month on insurance premiums... Guess I have to start looking for other insurance and stop moaning. Johan de Jager "It's all about the ride, nothing else"

Anyone out there found cheaper insurance elsewhere?....

Isn't that the excuse they used earlier this year? I think Eskom gets their ideas from BMW Insurance.

Perhaps BMW is taking financial advice from Eskom... I have contacted 2 alternate options and both are cheaper. F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za

Max please share. Thanks. Pete Mann

But that is what insurance '''is''': a group of people pooled together to cover for each other. It started in the old days in shipping. Three ships carrying cargo to the same destination would divide their cargo so that: # Boat A carried half of B and half of C's cargo # Boat B carried half of A and half of C's cargo # Boat C carried half of A and half of B's cargo That way, if any of them sank in a storm, their cargo would still be safe, and the loss was spread through the group because the others would have lost some of their cargo. Motor insurance is just the same on a larger scale and using money. Those bikers who don't write off their bikes, sponsor those that do. That is the very definition of insurance. Now, if you believe that you will never write off your bike, you could decline to insure it. So, why ''do'' you have insurance? - because you '''know''' that sooner or later, through no fault of your own, you are going to lose your bike and need to replace it. When that happens will you be carping on about some people who don't write off their bikes carrying the others? It is a fallacy to believe that you should end up claiming the same or more than you have paid in premiums - how will the insurance company pay its staff and how will it build up a reserve for that time when lady luck frowns on a whole lot of bikers? On average across the pool claims should be less than premiums collected - and when that isn't happening premiums must go up. Simple. Now, the choice is yours: * join a pool of bikers who have lower risk (HD?!!) * join a pool where the company keeps tighter rein on expenses by demanding 3 quotes, opting for repairs, refusing dodgy or frivolous (or even legit) claims (along with the bureaucratic overhead), or * insure yourself by putting money aside and hoping you have built up enough reserves before that accident, or even * insure yourself by doing nothing and hoping you have enough cash to sort out your own problems when they occur, or to just lose the bike. Bear in mind that if you are a consistently high claimer, the insurance company will exclude you from its pool (i.e. it will kick you out or load your premiums to cater for the higher risk). Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

My father was in short-term insurance his whole life and I learnt a few things from him: Insurance is designed to reduce/spread your risks, not obviate loss (and will never leave you better off than before the accident.) He told me many horror stories over the years; believe me when I tell you that BMW insurance is providing a quality service. I do not read many complaints here about getting BMW insurance to pay out claims. Perhaps this is why it is not the cheapest? You MUST weigh the two up against each other; quality-versus price. Beware of insurance bought over the phone or internet; they may be cheaper, but who is going to stand in your corner and fight for you when you can't get a claim paid out? Rather, go through a broker; he has the weight of all his policy holders and will advise future clients according to how well insurance companies look after their claimants. NO insurance company is going to replace a used bike with a new one, or pay in full for parts on an old bike. Period. Many years ago, I had a beautifully kept 27 year old Mercedes. Bought it for R10 000, insured it comprehensively for R 15 000 and paid R 7800 for a new master cylinder/clutch a few months later. Ouch! If it had been in an accident, it would have been written off with only minor dammage as the cost of replacing many parts would quickly exceed its value. I was warned about this when I took out the insurance. The same thing will happen these days with BMW bikes and any upmarket car. Except it won't take 27 years! As cars/bikes become more technically advanced, they simply won't age as well as the old ones, or keep their value as long. Deal with it or buy an R80gs or /5 which will keep/gain on its current value. The good news is we live in a (fairly) open economy and you are free to shop around but remember caveat emptor, otherwise known as 'goedkoop is duurkoop'. Having cheap insurance on an expensive machine is like saving bucks on a helmet.... My 2c worth, let the flaming begin! :-) Frank

Your comments about insurance are interesting. I am involved in the short term insurance industry and we have designed a product that works in a similar way to your medical savings acccount - an insurance account. Insurance is very simple - the good risk managers pay for the people who don't manage their risks very well. This product of ours changes this concept around so that you get rewarded for managing your risks properly. In the USA close to 60% of all insurance is done in this manner. BMW club have the opportunity of disigning their own insurance package for the people who genuinly want to manage their risk and not use the policy as "scratch and dent" repair mechanism. You can, for instance, give better rates to members who have succesfully completed training etc. As funds get built up in the insurance pool, the risks will be adjusted annually in order to reduce the actual spend on insurance. Premiums can be tax deductable and flexible. I have spoken to a few people about this - obviously the members can benefit if a whole new mindset can be used to look at insurance. If you are serious at looking at this, give me a shout and we'll take it further.

Andre, I have sent you a PM in this regard. Like most people (I suggest) my knowledge of the industry is dangerous to say the least.

I like the idea of club based insurance, many years ago sanlam used to offer club members an incentive. I will provide more information on other quotes once i'm sure we will actually benefit. F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za

Here's a suggestion: I'll speak to the clever people and come up with some sort of plan. I do not want to tread on toes or use this forum to market a service, but maybe BMW can then use our ideas and come up with a different option for those who are interested.

I'm by no means an insurance buff but what i dont understand, most of the 3000 riders that are "under insured", will end up taking their business elsewhere and bmw insurance will loose that revenue anyway, just doesn't gell. F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za

I pay R710 p/m for insurance on my 1200GS, and this after I've written them a letter asking them to reduce my premium. It is rather hectic. :-( ...Stand up, look up and open up!!...

And don't forget about the 3rd parties damages as well. That Insurance company will try and claim from you wether it is your fault or not. Experience is a wonderful thing. Ignore opinions, heed facts. Bum in the saddle.

In the same boat, got my letter on Monday. Spent 23 minutes on the phone to BMW, without being able to speak to somebody. Called again on Tuesday, was basically told: "If you dont like it take your business else where". Asked to speak to the manager - strangely he/she was not available ..... I sent them the following email: Regarding the latest increase in premium. I have been with BMW insurance for 4 years, and have not claimed once. Now my premium is increased by more than 40% - due the claims behavior of OTHER clients. Punishing me for the sins of others is NOT acceptable to me, nor do I take kindly to this type of behavior. I have to say that “this” has left a very bad taste in my mouth after four years of good service from BMW Financial Services. It would make sense if you implemented this AFTER I claim, but why punish me while I am being a good client. Is there any chance of you re-considering your stance regarding this increase? - I have not yet received a reply from them. In the mean time I have asked for quotes from other insurance companies - the very first one came back cheaper !!! Still waiting for more feedback before I make a decision ...... PS - Strange that we are continually told how "BMW replaces all damaged parts", YET I KNOW of parts that have been sent away to be repainted ...... I have NO problem with re-painting, but DONT like "half truths" !

Forget it, i have also tried to get through to the manager .... Extortion, i think thats the word... All the reasons I choose and ride a bmw are rapidly diffusing…I'm sure im not alone and i wonder if any of those decision makers ever considered that. I can almost say with certianty that unless the dealers step in and make things right my next purchase will NOT be a bmw South Africans are too complacent, we never jump up and down, unless we as buyers of the product change our habits we will continually go through the same Sh^t If you dont make a noise, vote with your feet. F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za

This is an emotional subject guys and girls.......however don't punish the brand because of the insurance premiums. Likewise if you don't like what you ride don't blame insurance for moving to another brand. It is your right to shop around for insurance regardless of what you ride/drive, nobody "forces" you to ensure via ANY insurance company. I have 2 bikes insured with BMW insurance. I will also have to now pay 2 x R390pm = R780.00. However my quote yesterday from "another" very reputable company was R891.00 for the 2 bikes. So shop around you may get lucky, you may not!!!! If you do let us know!!!!! Beware though of the fine print and make sure that you are not only covered for what you use your bike for but also for "total" repairs in the event of an off!!!!!

GOOD ADVICE GR some food for thought; IF YOU DROP YOUR BIKE SAY 5 times on a trip How many claims do you register with your insurer ?? The Answer is 5 Claims with 5 Excesses to be paid. Does this happen ?? You be the Judge. If all claims lodged were honest we would all pay a lot less for our insurance and that goes for all types of insurance. Lets keep it REAL !!

Excellent chirp! Well said! In my case the answer is '''0''' - I ride a working bike, not a ''showroom floor concourse d'elegance'' competitor... Website Administrator [http://honeybadger.net Honey Badger IT Services]

To elaborate, i have been in the bike game for 20+ years, owned all different brands, i settled on bmw not only because they are good bikes but... The bike prices were comparable with other manafacturers, this year has seen a dramatic increase Spares pricing was reasonable, gone up 40 to 60% in the last year Insurance was always a large draw card as it was very competitive, not any more The only draw card that remains is the after sales service, which is always good or has been for me Over the past 12 years i have owned bmw but now i feel like i'm being raped, very little regard is given to brand loyaty. So when all is said and done we are powerless to talk directly to the insurers (as i have experienced) this is where i expect bmw dealers (because of my brand loyaty) to step up to the plate and knock some heads, failing that i must vote with my feet esle i'm just another skaap... F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za

Correct Max and all you are saying is in your last paragraph. If you expect the "dealers" to fight your fight (I am sure many people feel this way) then chat to them directly. I would suggest that they (The dealers) are as much up in arms as we are as there is no positive spin off for them with the increase. All they get is a lashing from us consumers. It would be naive to think that they are remotely happy about the situation and that they would not do something about it if they could. I highly doubt you are going to get better insurance rates by changing brands of motor cycle. But yes, your concerns are our concerns!

I think desperate times require desperate measures. Let the dealers concentrate on selling bikes, and let's get Julius Molema involved in our fight with BMW Insurance. He's been a bit quiet of late! Buddy Out there where we all belong.

The real reason for the premium increase is not because bikes are under-insured or because parts are expensive. It's because they want to maximise profits for shareholders at a time when earnings are down.

Cloudgazer +100 Its all about greed. F800GS (mine) F650GS (hers) X-Challenge (mine) Honda XR250 (hers) Motorcycle Rider Training http://www.twowheels.co.za