Question on religion

When I say I am praying for somebody, it is because I am adapting to their model of the world.  What I am really doing is wishing them the best, holding thumbs, thinking of them etc etc.  Since in their world, prayer is the right thing to do, I tell them I am praying for them when I am actually doing the equivalent action in my 'religion'.

I'm with Charles on this.

Hmmmm a touchy subject.

Charles and Cloud, I must say I disagree with you wholeheartedly on this one.

Sorry guys but i think you are missing the point.

LOL, you can't disagree with us.

That is our view when saying 'you are in our prayers' or 'we're praying for you'.

If we missed Johan's point that's a different matter entirely.

But I think I read his question the same way Charles did.

I think it comes down to different perceptions of the meaning (and cultural evolution) of words.

The perspective of the (Christian??) believer is that the word "religious" is synonymous with living out one's faith thru doing things by rote, as if trying to earn one's way to some type of heaven, instead of a daily interaction with a personality. The bible refers to these people as white-washed walls, all pretty on the outside just for show, yet hypocritical within

Therefore in terms of Christianity, I can safely say I pray, but I am not religious.

I believe there's a big difference between being religious and believing in God / Higher Power.  Religion can be big business, belief in God can't.  Religion can be based on complex interpretations and perceptions (just count the bewildering number of conflicting academic positions on identical religious topics), whereas belief in God can be utterly simple and uncomplicated.  I don't see any contradiction in non religious people being highly spiritual or people praying.

For atheists the definition of the word holds true: to pray is to wish or hope for a particular outcome.

I guess what I'm saying is that the answer to your question is that religion isn't a pre-requisite for prayer.

Ek se dat ek KUIER LEKKER,

Die by, hy crap sy bal dis al..................

Ask the small voice inside each of us to guide you to a suitable place where you can be guided in such matters. Please try and be sentitive and listen to HIS prompting. You will know which is the voice to listen to inside you, the more you listen the easier it will become. Listen to your hart not your head. Sometimes when your hart tells you something you strongly dought that you have heard correctly and go the other way only to regret it later in life. Find a mature prayer partner.

I also do not think you are on the right platform to require such sensitive and diverse personal life changing information.

Its your walk, how, where and when you do it has nothing to do with any one else. Just ask yourself if you are living the dream we have been called to live or are we being caught up in religeon once again.

I promise everyone on this thread I will not participate further on this platform in this regard, however you are welcome to call me personally on 0823039326 if you would me to asist you to hear what the Holy Spirit is trying to show you. Or I could refer you to a Spirit Filled Christian who would be delighted to assist you.

Live your life as if its the day of the second comming and plan your life as if He is long yet to come. Yours in Christ, Russ.

This is indeed a subject designed to cause heated discussion. There is a distinction between belief in a higher being/power and organised religion. A religious organisation is a vehicle designed to interpret the relationship with God and prescribes codes of behaviour, moral codes and parameters of conduct etc to adherents. So it is possible to believe in a higher power/God without being a member of any particular religion. A problem arises when the adherents of one religion claim exclusivity with their interpretation and relationship to God - we are seeing the results on a daily basis - where people who claim to worship a loving and benevolent God see no contradistion in inflicting pain and suffering on their fellow human beings.

However, having said all that think  that individuals are entitled to their beliefs and would never try to dissuade anyone from a particular religious belief system, I have seen many instances where a religious commitment has helped a person through a difficult period in their life, and the value of this cannot be underestimated.

I must agree with Charles and Clouds, in that when someone says I'll pray for you. They don't specify who they are praying to or even if they really are going to pray to anyone or anything.

I did this for years, but now when I say that I will pray for you, you can expect something to happen..! ;-)

As in politics these are sensitive and, in my opinion, private subjects and should not appear on this or similar forums. There is access to a number of forums on these subjects.  

Should you wish to discuss my views please send me a P M and I will reply to you with personel experiences.

I disagree, religious practise and obsrvance is a very public thing, churches are always prominent buildings and people come together to worship. It is done publicly. Often public meetings are opened with some sort of prayer or request for divine intercession.

However, I do agree in respect of the fact that this is a bike forum and so the above is probably off the topic so to speak and would be better suited on another forum.

1. It is in the chatter section, so allowed to be off-topic
2. It is useful for us to learn to discuss potentially explosive topics without losing our manners
3. It is interesting to hear other bikers perspectives on religion and their own beliefs.

To me, the most important thing to maintain is tolerance.  Unfortunately, some belief-systems require the adherent to actively convert others to that system - and such systems become successful not because they are right but because they are active/viral/violent.

Here is a very interesting story for especially you Charles.

http://www.cai.org/testimonies/physicist-becomes-christian

Worth noting that JohanM is a Minister (Dominee).

Yet he has NEVER "preached" on this forum.

He is merely asking a number of interesting questions.

It does not look like he is using this to "further his view", merely asking how different people experience/interpret this topic.

Johan ek sal jou later my persoonlike antwoorde stuur.

No one is saying otherwise. 

Many of us know that JohanM is a minister.

However he asked his question in a public forum, and therefore we should answer him publicly, and not via PM.

I would like to add that I have been at two different club events where before a meal, a Christian prayer was held before the meal started. We are all entitled to our own religious (or non-religious) beliefs however I feel that unless there is a fair representation of other religions (Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.) present at these events, it is unwise for members to align the club with any one religion in preference over another, or in preference over any non-believers that there may be in the club.

How are you?  I heard you broke your leg   (I don't mind dragging this thread off-topic).  Are you coping?

I took Julie out to Darling last weekend - she was on her little bike and rode beautifully.  When you are back on your feet/bike again we must do something similar.

regards

Charles

Hey Charles

Ja I broke my leg over The Buff weekend, in a cast for another 3.5 weeks.  People have been good, kind and thoughtful, it has been a humbling and interesting experience.

Good on Julie, tell her we must go for a ride together when I'm back riding again.

I'm all in favour of prayers before the meal, it gives me a chance to upgrade my plate with a drumstick or piece of wors!

Amen!

Thanks for all the comments! Sorry for the uneasiness the question caused. I have to deal a lot of this uneasiness in my line of work.

Thanks for letting the thread running on the forum a bit. I also do not agree that the topic ought to be private, since then we would not learn from each other. There is a point of privacy for every person regarding his/her relation to his/her Creator, and whether he/she do believe in a Creator or not. I respect that. I also respect other people's opinions, and find it teachable to me, even if it makes me uneasy because it may differ from mine.

As I respect others, I hope they respect mine, and that one can always share views in a respectfull manner. I asked a question regarding prayer, just to try and understand how non religious people understand the meaning of the act called prayer. Since I know a bit more now, I think I can safely say that my interpretation differs somewhat...when I pray, I do mean it.

I also learned that people are suspicious about religious institutions - I am also! But that does not mean that one can do away with all institutions! Al institutions is made up with people like us (bikers, etc!)

I also do have a lot of questions about live and religion and faith. Therefore I am also aware of statements that exclude others. But I also do have some certainties which I am prepared to chat about, without trying to be the only fundi on the topic. I am defenitely open to listen to others and learn from them. I am not scared of views that differs from mine. If I only chat with likeminded people, what would I learn?

I also am of the opinion that non religious people are believers too. Even so called non-believers believe something!

Ok, over to chatting about jokes, soccer, bikes, boken legs and other everyday stuff! We only live once - may that be in peace!.